Welcome To the Hoffman Amplifiers Forum

September 07, 2025, 01:47:48 pm
guest image
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
-User Name
-Password



Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Illinois Caps  (Read 19849 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cotton

  • Guest
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Illinois Caps
« on: March 18, 2009, 10:52:05 am »
Are you guys having good luck with these?  I repeatedly read about high rate of failure with this brand e-caps.  Anybody have a long term relationship with Illinois?
Thank You

Offline FYL

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 01:44:09 pm »
Good quality industrial caps. No problems when properly used. Quite inexpensive.
Maybe they'd be more popular if shipped in an oversized can at four times their price...





Offline jhadhar65

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2502
  • The whole thing stinks like yesterdays diapers!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 05:16:00 pm »
Doug sells a lot of them here and I haven't heard anything suggesting they're not reliable.  Maybe you heard from someone who stumbled on a bum lot?  It happens once in a while with anything factory made and mass marketed, but I haven't even heard anything like that at all about the Illinois caps.  Where have you been reading it?

cotton

  • Guest
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 09:50:38 pm »
Doug sells a lot of them here and I haven't heard anything suggesting they're not reliable.  Maybe you heard from someone who stumbled on a bum lot?  It happens once in a while with anything factory made and mass marketed, but I haven't even heard anything like that at all about the Illinois caps.  Where have you been reading it?

Oh Man -
On every forum I have ever been on. Seymour Duncan, The Gear Page, Dr.Z, etc.  Here is just the latest...
http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=705251&lastpost=2009-03-1806:05:43

Offline bigsbybender

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1944
  • Hack Of All Trades
    • Tube Amp Gallery
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 11:03:16 pm »
Much of the anti-Illinois cap noise comes from Gerald Weber, lots of people have his books...and spread his "sales spiel" as facts.

I've re-capped so many amps with Illinois that I can't even estimate the number, I've never had a bum one...or one come back for a recap in the nearly 15 years that I've done this.

j.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 11:13:35 pm by bigsbybender »
Open Minded But Fixed Bias

Offline LooseChange

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 3511
  • Keep it greasy so it goes down easy.
    • Fix Your Darn Amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 05:18:13 am »
I have nothing against Illinois or their Caps.  I've used them myself. But, I had a Blues Junior in the shop the other day that was only a few years old and all the Illinois caps had failed with stuff was coming out of the end.  I replaced them all. The amp was not abused.
Call me Dan
www.fydamps.com

cotton

  • Guest
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 01:33:57 pm »
I have nothing against Illinois or their Caps.  I've used them myself. But, I had a Blues Junior in the shop the other day that was only a few years old and all the Illinois caps had failed with stuff was coming out of the end.  I replaced them all. The amp was not abused.

Stories like this is what made me ask.  This is not an isolated failure.  I have been hearing stuff like this about IC for the last several years.  So when I saw that they are sold on The Hoffman website, I thought I would see what kind of long term relationship you guys have had with IC.
I do not want to damage anybody's reputation, don't have an axe to grind with IC, and do not have much experience with IC.  I have always used Ruby, Sprauge, Xicon, or F&T e-caps.  Illinois is the only caps I have heard continuous complaints about.  I just installed some IC 22/500 filter caps in an old Magnatone, but I am wondering if I should pull them out......
Thanks

Offline Dynaflow

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2321
  • Have a cow man!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 09:30:06 pm »
 Pretty odd about the BJ, mines 5 + years old, looks pretty good I take care of it no tears, but its been riden hard at rehearsal's and small gigs and I'll tell ya the biggest bug a boo about them is the darn tube sockets on that board like to unsolder themselves. I wet a iron with just a small amount of solder and hit each one and it goes to working again. Cap's havn't been an issue at all, so it could a isolated incident. I've got some real small Illinois Caps in my little green juke 5e3 and then been doing great. I like anything but Spragues which I try to boycott if possible just because of price more than anything else.

Regards,

Dyna
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 08:43:46 pm by Dynaflow »
Making the world deaf 18 watts at a time...

Offline mrm0to

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • Blackbelts
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 06:27:02 pm »
Both these stories are about bad stock caps on Blues Juniors... maybe there is something in the assembly process that is killing them early. I've used 'em in a handful of amps over the last 2 years and haven't had anything back or heard anything negative from the owners.

Offline Tiny_Daddy

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2690
  • Get your Amp N Gear!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2009, 01:22:03 pm »
Plenty of amps come through my shop with Illinois caps. Tube and solid state. Never seen a failure yet.

Offline Greenmachine

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 08:01:11 pm »
Posting on an old thread here ...

I just picked up Gerald's latest book (2009 printing) and was surprised at how vehemently he speaks against Illinois caps; however, I've a friend who's an amp tech and swears he prefers the Illinois over Sprague Atom's.  He's had problems with the Atom's in the past and never with the Illinois'.

Nice to see some support for them here.  I've got 'em in my 5F2 and 5E3 and I think they sound great.

Offline sluckey

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 5075
    • Sluckey Amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 08:26:12 pm »
I've used more Illinois than Atoms. Never had one fail. They're smaller and cheaper. I've been a tech all my life but this is just a hobby. Most of the people here have a more meaningful opinion than mine.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 10:30:08 pm »
Some of the guys over at the power scaling site don't like IC caps. Some of the same guys don't like sprague and F&T either. KOC and some others there seem to favor the small radial types like nichicon VZ(M) series iirc.

I've seen/read where Gerald wrote that he only likes American and some German made types, sprague, F&T and Tech Cap. Also he's said that given say a 20uf/500v. cap, the bigger the physical size of the cap (with same ratings) will always sound/work better, that the larger caps can handle more ripple current. He's also said something about that the newer/smaller type (computer) caps when their made, their "plates" are "etched" during construction to get a larger surface area, to get a higher uf rating in a smaller package, but they can't handle a tube amps current demands.

KOC likes to point to the larger caps like, sprague and F&T, as still using/being made with the old technology of the 50s/60s. That the newer, smaller caps are made with newer/better technology, as a result of being driven by the PC "boom" market, including what their made of, giving a much better cap in a smaller package, lower ESR, higher ripple current ratings, in high temp packages, all at a much lower price to boot.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy about tube amp electronics!     :BangHead:

Me, I couldn't tell ya whats what!      :laugh:

PRR, what do you think about this ? Would be helpfull to all of us.

      
     Thanks,    Brad    :smiley:    
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 06:24:48 am by Willabe »

Offline Tiny_Daddy

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2690
  • Get your Amp N Gear!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2010, 06:39:41 pm »
OK now I have seen some failures of the 22uF caps in two Blues Juniors. Must have been a bad run of caps.

Offline bigsbybender

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1944
  • Hack Of All Trades
    • Tube Amp Gallery
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2010, 01:36:20 pm »
Some of the guys over at the power scaling site don't like IC caps. Some of the same guys don't like sprague and F&T either. KOC and some others there seem to favor the small radial types like nichicon VZ(M) series iirc.

I've seen/read where Gerald wrote that he only likes American and some German made types, sprague, F&T and Tech Cap. Also he's said that given say a 20uf/500v. cap, the bigger the physical size of the cap (with same ratings) will always sound/work better, that the larger caps can handle more ripple current. He's also said something about that the newer/smaller type (computer) caps when their made, their "plates" are "etched" during construction to get a larger surface area, to get a higher uf rating in a smaller package, but they can't handle a tube amps current demands.

KOC likes to point to the larger caps like, sprague and F&T, as still using/being made with the old technology of the 50s/60s. That the newer, smaller caps are made with newer/better technology, as a result of being driven by the PC "boom" market, including what their made of, giving a much better cap in a smaller package, lower ESR, higher ripple current ratings, in high temp packages, all at a much lower price to boot.


Crack open a Sprague Atom....   Unless it is over 20+ years old you will see a small modern cap inside that big can. You are paying for an Illinois/Nichicon/Xicon/Sino style stuffed in an oversized/overstuffed can.  I've used all types, ATOMs, Nichicon, Xicon, Panasonic, etc. and have never received noticed a difference, nor has anyone else.  I only use Spragues anymore on special request.... and haven't had a special request for them in over 3 years.

j.
Open Minded But Fixed Bias

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2010, 03:50:45 pm »
Thanks bigsbybender. Thats interesting, dont think thats "fair", but I can belive it.


                 Brad     :smiley:

Offline Greenmachine

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2010, 06:59:31 pm »


Crack open a Sprague Atom....   Unless it is over 20+ years old you will see a small modern cap inside that big can. You are paying for an Illinois/Nichicon/Xicon/Sino style stuffed in an oversized/overstuffed can.  I've used all types, ATOMs, Nichicon, Xicon, Panasonic, etc. and have never received noticed a difference, nor has anyone else.  I only use Spragues anymore on special request.... and haven't had a special request for them in over 3 years.

j.
[/quote]

Holy Cow!  If anybody wants to post a picture of that I'd love to see it!  Thanks for the mythbusting!

Offline sluckey

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 5075
    • Sluckey Amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2010, 08:03:41 pm »
.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline bigsbybender

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1944
  • Hack Of All Trades
    • Tube Amp Gallery
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2010, 10:11:55 pm »
^There it is...   in a discussion about this topic a few years back, the only logic anyone could think of behind stuffing a little cap in a big can was for replacement part contracts...(Probably industrial or Military where technology is maintained and may be used for decades.) These would specify for a cap of not only a certain value but specific sizes as well. If you look at large electrical supplier catalogs, it lists the ATOM as a "Replacement Part" specifically.

In the end, Gerald Weber needs "sales points" to sell his amps at enough of a profit to keep him in business. I own all of his books but needed to look beyond what was salesmanship and what is real. He's trying to dig at Fender et. al.  for using Illinois caps. Oddly enough he'll claim that you need the ATOM for the "classic" Fender tone, but "Classic" Fenders didn't use ATOMs at all.

j.
Open Minded But Fixed Bias

Offline Greenmachine

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2011, 07:03:16 pm »
Thanks Sluckey and Bigsbybender.  Good to have a little perspective.  There's often a lot of BS to wade through in the world of 'mojo' eh?

Cheers.

Offline EL34

  • Administrator
  • Level 5
  • **********
  • Posts: 10407
  • wooot!
    • Hoffman Amplifiers
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2011, 05:48:38 pm »
why is this post in the tools board?

Offline jojokeo

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2985
  • Eddie and my zebrawood V in Dave's basement '77
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2011, 07:54:08 pm »
Does anyone think he's got a totally objective viewpoint or a subjective interest in this?
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.

Offline bigdaddy

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1023
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2011, 08:11:43 pm »
I used them in a lot of my builds in the past, maybe almost all of them. Never had a problem. I did get a bad F&T, one. But never had an issue with the Illinois. Good caps and a good price.

Offline Jack1962

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 376
  • I love AMPS, Tube or SS
    • Latham Electronic Systems
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2011, 06:02:59 am »
I have used a ton of Illinos caps in a lot of different applications and had very few failures
Any tube unit can be brought back to life.
I never meet a tube I didn't like.

Offline EL34

  • Administrator
  • Level 5
  • **********
  • Posts: 10407
  • wooot!
    • Hoffman Amplifiers
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2011, 06:56:35 am »
I probably repaired 300 Fenders and other types of amps
I used 22/500v and 100/350v Illinois all day long.
Never got a customer complaint.
Naver saw one fail.
The amps sounded great!

They are also in all the Hoffman 30 watt heads.

I never used Atoms in the repair business or in my amps.
I did use Cornell Dublier 60/500's in the Hoffman 50 and 100 watt heads
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 04:30:33 pm by EL34 »

Offline TweeDLX

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Shoor, ve fix dat right op!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2011, 06:41:45 pm »
I'm just an avid hobbyist, but I've used the IC's in several builds with no issues. One BIG selling point for me is the smaller size. Makes them fit in some builds better than the Atoms, and leaves a bit more room to work. I don't mind paying less, either.  :laugh:
Simple plan: Kill Moose and Squirrel!

Offline plexi50

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4649
  • Tube Tone
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2011, 06:51:13 pm »
Have never had a problem with the Illinois capacitors. They are half the price as well as the Spragues

Offline Backwoods Joe

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 172
  • I love tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2011, 08:21:04 pm »
There seems to be a common thread here, IC caps that are in Fenders seem to have the high failure rate, not the ones we buy on the open market!

Offline bluesbear

  • SMG
  • Level 3
  • *****
  • Posts: 1687
  • I love tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2011, 07:35:16 am »
It's dectective work 101. If all the failures seem to come from one amp company (Fender) and most of them from one model (Blues Junior), it would be considered admissable evidence that Fender got a bad run of caps. I've never had a bad Illinois cap and I've used a lot of them. On the other hand, my son's first amp was one of the earliest Blues Junior's. I bought it for him new and it still is just fine... and doesn't sound bad either, BTW. I'd bet the amps with bad caps were all made about the same time. If so, I'd consider that proof!
Dave

Offline jojokeo

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2985
  • Eddie and my zebrawood V in Dave's basement '77
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2011, 12:39:34 pm »
I agree B-bear but I was also wondering about other related issues too. Such as those cheap ass pcb's that are used on them. I've had to re-solder a bunch of contacts on those and who knows what's happening (shorting/overloading) as a result of which one's of those that are going bad and when?

I can say the Illinois caps haven't given me any issues in the past either on any re-cappped or personal build amps, including green board or a tan board BJs that I've modded.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.

Offline phsyconoodler

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4679
  • honey badger don't give a ****
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2011, 01:52:16 pm »
I do Fender warranty repairs and I have run across a few Fender amps that have had faulty IC caps in them.They start leaking goo out of the positive end and sometimes there is a little bit of hum associated with the amp.

I would say after three years I've done about 4 amps.The preamp 22uf/500v ones were the ones that were leaky.I replace them all because of the PC board removal necessary.
  I also have used them in a few amps builds with no issues nyself,but the ones in fenders make me wonder if there was a bad run of the 22uf ones??
Honey badger don't give a ****

Offline Tone Junkie

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 861
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2011, 02:02:53 pm »
Could there manufacturing process be such that they are over heating them in such a way as to cause premature failure, I only ask because it seems to be all fenders and nothing else.
Thanks Bill

Offline LooseChange

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 3511
  • Keep it greasy so it goes down easy.
    • Fix Your Darn Amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2011, 02:22:52 pm »
I think it was a just bad bulk run that Fender purchased from IC.
Call me Dan
www.fydamps.com

Offline J Rindt

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 427
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2011, 06:02:45 pm »
I think at this point we all know the story. Fender got a bunch of bad IC caps.....victim of a bad run. It is doubtful if many or ANY of those caps went to Mouser, CE, Hoffman or anybody else. Just one of those Bad Deals that can sink a company's reputation (both Fender and IC). Kind of like what happened with Bridgestone Tires and the Ford Explorer. Both companies make fine tires and fine cars. These things sometimes happen during the manufacture of a product that uses a large number of components.
Also at the time there was that weird Electrolytic Formula Ripp-Off. There was a crucial mis-step in the make up of the paste that effected a large number of caps. I do not know if IC got caught up in that disaster as well.
When I posted this question originally, I was not aware of all the peripheral problems. I have also used quite a few IC caps and as of yet, I have not had a problem with any of them. I was not slighting IC in any way. I was just curious about "all the problems" I had read about IC caps. As it turns out, as normally happens, truth was a bit different than a lot of the stories I read. It was a problem peculiar to Fender, and primarily with one value of cap from IC. That storm is well behind us. Thanks for all the responses, and thanks once again to Doug Hoffman for giving us a medium to talk about "All This Stuff"....  :smiley:

Offline LooseChange

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 3511
  • Keep it greasy so it goes down easy.
    • Fix Your Darn Amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2011, 08:57:34 pm »
So, maybe, just maybe, Gerald Weber's continual trashing of Illinois Caps is not true?  :icon_biggrin:
Call me Dan
www.fydamps.com

Offline bluesbear

  • SMG
  • Level 3
  • *****
  • Posts: 1687
  • I love tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2011, 07:56:10 am »
In my opinion, Gerald Weber's books are the very best out there as learning tools. I also believe he's like everyone else. He has opinions and beliefs and some of them are pure voodoo. Also, as we all know, what works for one, doesn't always work for another. Take people's facts and make up your own opinions and you can't go too wrong.
Dave

Offline seedlings

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2011, 08:14:53 am »
I'm glad I read this thread.  I wondered why I'd shy away from Illinois in my shopping cart... I have two of Weber's books.  I'm sure that's why because usually I buy on a budget.  I've recently been browsing back through his books after learning and building more... why is there not one plate characteristics chart?  Don't get me wrong, I learned quite a bit from the books, but the Illinois lesson will be one I forget.

CHAD

Offline phsyconoodler

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4679
  • honey badger don't give a ****
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2011, 10:21:42 am »
Quote:" Bridgestone Tires and the Ford Explorer."

Actually I believe it was FIRESTONE tires.Correct me if I'm wrong.
It does put a strain on manufacturers credibility when there are issues with even one product.
Honey badger don't give a ****

Offline jim

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 432
  • may the pure orange light shine upon you
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2011, 10:36:27 am »
In one of his books, KOC makes mention of "cheap offshore caps" and specifically mentions that IC should be avoided.  On this he is in agreement with GW.   He is generally a frugal type of builder--this part worries me because he feels it important to pay extra for premium.   Aside from the reliability issue, I have replaced IC caps that are working--I can't hear any particular difference in tone.  Jim
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench--a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men left to die like dogs.   There is also a negative side.

Offline J Rindt

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 427
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2011, 10:37:09 am »
Quote:" Bridgestone Tires and the Ford Explorer."

Actually I believe it was FIRESTONE tires.Correct me if I'm wrong.
It does put a strain on manufacturers credibility when there are issues with even one product.
The same company.....

Offline mresistor

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 4
  • ******
  • Posts: 3209
  • resistance is futile
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2011, 10:45:54 am »
"In 1988, the (Firestone) company was sold to the Japanese Bridgestone Corporation.

Offline phsyconoodler

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4679
  • honey badger don't give a ****
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2011, 11:12:09 am »
But for the record,the tires in question were branded 'Firestone' .and I believe owning a company doesn't mean that the manufacturing process of those particular tires had anything to do with Bridgestone proper.

  It's really gray area because the design and country of origin,materials used and quality control protocols all come into play when you manufacture large quantities of anything,especially capacitors.We don't know if IC contracts work out to other companies and re-brands them or uses multiple companies to meet quotas etc,etc....
Honey badger don't give a ****

Offline Platefire

  • SMG
  • Level 5
  • *****
  • Posts: 5447
  • How many tube amps do you need? One more!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2011, 11:19:17 am »
I vote yes for Illinois! Good results over a period of time, smaller size for easier fitting and smaller price in a continuing inflated economy. What more for you want!  :icon_biggrin:
On the right track now<><

Offline bluesbear

  • SMG
  • Level 3
  • *****
  • Posts: 1687
  • I love tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2011, 01:44:05 pm »
When thousands of people buy millions of caps, there's bound to be some bad ones. I don't think Spragues are any better... or even as good, just cheap junk living on their name. We're living in a world of corporate junk. The boutique caps are sold in far less quantities. I suspect that their average rate of failure is no better than IC. Remember, if 0.1% of 10,000 is bad, it's only 10 caps. If 0.1% of 10,000,000 is bad, it's 10,000! Which do you think it's more likely you'd hear about?
Dave

Offline LooseChange

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 3511
  • Keep it greasy so it goes down easy.
    • Fix Your Darn Amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2011, 02:11:50 pm »
I vote for any 20uf - 450v cap that costs under a buck!
Call me Dan
www.fydamps.com

Offline plexi50

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4649
  • Tube Tone
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2011, 02:37:49 pm »
Makes you wonder if business is down for Sprague electrolytics
There caps just cost quite a bit more than the other choices
Thankgod we have other choices or we would be broke

Offline renshen1957

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2011, 02:55:10 pm »
In one of his books, KOC makes mention of "cheap offshore caps" and specifically mentions that IC should be avoided.  On this he is in agreement with AW.   He is generally a frugal type of builder--this part worries me because he feels it important to pay extra for premium.   Jim

Hi Jim,

The gist of KOC writings and personal communication is as follows:

KOC dealt with repeated issues of failures with Illinois caps and in his experience IC caps are unreliable. The IC caps has been mentioned in his books. His opinion was a cheap cap that failed, you get what you pay for. "Illinois Caps still make the worst electrolytics on the planet. Their claim to fame was low cost back in the early '80s - their plastics are fine; don't waste your money on their electrolytics!" & "The IC electrolytics are just poorly designed as far as I can tell. Tophat used them and anyone who replaced the caps with any other brand found the amps had better low end response and a less gritty sound.

Illinois Capacitors hit a price point that makes them very appealing - at least it did so ten years ago. The 500V rating on their axial-lead units is also appealing with the prevalence of 470-500V operation of most modern circuits. I was never a fan of axial-lead caps, so had no problem subbing radial-lead units where axials used to be, but many techs are afraid to make such changes.

Modern manufacturing allows less expensive caps than IC's to outperform them very easily. Electrolytic caps are very compromised by design, that is, they deviate from ideal capacitor function in many ways, but Illinois manages to have about the most deviant examples possible."

The owner of Island Amps (another professional Canadian Guitar Amp manufacturer) also saw more than his fair of Fender amps and Peavey with bad IC caps in repair work.   "I completely agree with Kevin when it comes to the Illinois caps!  I've seen a lot of Peaveys and newer Fenders... so I see a lot of bad Illinois caps."  Dante likewise, saw issues with F&T caps. His recommendation, once you go radial, you never go back.

Dante Carrers' comment seems to indicate that IC failures weren't restricted to one model by one manufacturer.



On the repairs that I have done on Fender amps (the non-vintage ones) the components sourced came from the cheapest suppliers, as far as I could determine mostly from China, Thaliand, Indonesia, etc.  I couldn't find anything that could be verified as being made in the US, other than the Speakers.  Also, the PCB traces were thinner than should have be for long term reliable operation.  It was as though every possible cost reduction that could be incorporated into a design was there. I haven't had to replace an IC in a Fender amp, but I've seen and replaced my share of resistors and zeners that should have used a higher wattage for added reliability rather than save a fraction of a penny. It was though overbuilt or overspec'd and Fender are mutually exclusive concepts. Consumer grade quality sold as professional grade product.

KOC does not recommend Atoms caps, any expensive components, or Voodoo parts. His only positive comment on Atoms were their larger physical size reduced parasitic capacitance in some amps, but larger spacing (with smaller sized parts) achieve the same goal for less money.

KOC uses Solen PP film Fast Caps in place of Electrolytic Caps for a clearer sound, reliability, and longer life expectancy than Electrolytic Caps (the life expectancy of the amp).  Solens do not have the "electrolytic distortion" that E-caps have (but one can recapture this tonal quality by various methods).  To offer a lower price amp model, KOC has introduced an amp with Electrolytic caps.

In his "Super Stock" or updated versions of classic amps or in projects of his design in the TUT series, KOC recommends radial caps for better physical reliability over axial E-caps.  And yes, the Axial Caps by any of the "cons" and other brands without "con" in their brand name have been lower priced (Japan's recent disaster may or may not change these prices) and are generally of high quality. This market has been driven by computers, mostly the monitor market.  "Mitsushita through their Panasonic brand make very excellent caps at low cost, sold also as Nichicon. These function and sound better than caps costing many times what these do, and occupying much more space than these. Sprague and Mallory are not better than Nichicon but cost a lot more and have the "favoured voodoo" approval."

I have used Atoms (I test all my caps with a Heathkit or Sprague Capacitor tester at full voltage before hand) and Nichicon for that matter, and hadn't had issues others have mention, just as many have used IC without a hitch, especially the history of IC with Hoffman Amps.  Your mileage may vary.


Best Regards,

Steve


Offline softwarejanitor

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2011, 05:47:14 pm »
Are you guys having good luck with these?  I repeatedly read about high rate of failure with this brand e-caps.  Anybody have a long term relationship with Illinois?
Thank You

I've heard some people have run into problems with cheap Chinese counterfeit Illinois caps.  Apparently the fake versions are much poorer quality than the real thing and will often burst after very little use.  If you buy from a reputable supplier you shouldn't run into these.  These days with all the Chinese fakes around, if the price seems too good to be true, it just might be.

Offline renshen1957

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2011, 11:24:43 pm »
Makes you wonder if business is down for Sprague electrolytics
There caps just cost quite a bit more than the other choices
Thankgod we have other choices or we would be broke

Wholesale Distributors that stock Atoms such as CEDist (and also their retail antique electronics supply) run out all of caps from time to time. Sprague Atoms.  If people didn't purchase the caps Vishay-Sprague wouldn't continue to manufacture them.

Best Regards,

Steve

Offline Jack1962

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 376
  • I love AMPS, Tube or SS
    • Latham Electronic Systems
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: Illinois Caps
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2011, 01:05:13 pm »
Actually I have a had fair luck with Atom's too  :laugh:
Any tube unit can be brought back to life.
I never meet a tube I didn't like.

 


Choose a link from the
Hoffman Amplifiers parts catalog
Mobile Device
Catalog Link
Yard Sale
Discontinued
Misc. Hardware
What's New Board Building
 Parts
Amp trim
Handles
Lamps
Diodes
Hoffman Turret
 Boards
Channel
Switching
Resistors Fender Eyelet
 Boards
Screws/Nuts
Washers
Jacks/Plugs
Connectors
Misc Eyelet
Boards
Tools
Capacitors Custom Boards
Tubes
Valves
Pots
Knobs
Fuses/Cords Chassis
Tube
Sockets
Switches Wire
Cable


Handy Links
Tube Amp Library
Tube Amp
Schematics library
Design a custom Eyelet or
Turret Board
DIY Layout Creator
File analyzer program
DIY Layout Creator
File library
Transformer Wiring
Diagrams
Hoffmanamps
Facebook page
Hoffman Amplifiers
Discount Program


password