Palmer PGA-04 speaker simulator test

[EL34]

I think I have finally cracked the nut on how to record real tube amps without having a real studio.

The problem has always been that you need to isolate the amp in another room so that you can hear how it sounds through the mic without the amp drowning out your headphones.
You need to move the mic around and listen to the amp through the headphones.
Just a tiny move of the mic this way or that can be a huge difference.
Plus the fact that you have neighbors that might not appreciate a 50 wat amp cranked through a 4 x12.
The cats, dogs, wifes, kids may not like it either.
Even the humble little Schedule 40 is really loud.

Nothing I tried worked and since I don't have a studio with a separate control room I kind of gave up on real tube amp mic'd recordings.

I was reading an interview of Joe Satriani and he mentioned a Palmer Speaker simulator. I checked out the reviews on harmony central on the Palmer PGA-04 and they were really good.

Anywho, this thing really is amazing. It has all kind of cool filter controls on the front panel that give you a great sound.
It's nothing like an amp line out, it actually sounds good.
It is a power soak also so you do not hear anything except what comes through the headphones/recording console. I am testing it without any cabinet at all.
You can still hook up a cabinet and bypass the power soak. This way, you can get a balanced or unbalanced line out to the console and still hear your amp.

I did some test with a Hoffman AB763 amp and some ZZ top overdriven sounds from several amps to see how it fares.

This is a conglomerate MP3 of 4 amp clipss.
No speaker cabinet was used.
It's very crude and raw.

A schedule 40
A regular Stout
A Reverb Stout
An original Hoffman Plexi 50.

PalmerTest1

A couple Hendrix tunes with the Palmer PGA-04

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/BurningMidnightLamp.mp3

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/1983Merman.mp3

And a few more recorded directlly from the Palmer

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/Pipeline.mp3

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/LoveHurts.mp3

This tune was done in about an hour using only clean tones from my Hoffman AB763 combo.
The speakers were unplugged and the amp was run into the Palmer.
I didn't spend a ton of time polishing it so it's rough and the drum track is generic.

Palmer Apache test

My sound clips page may have more Palmer tunes
You can go here an search the page for the word palmer
http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/music1.htm



And finally, the Palmer PGA-04 speaker simulator link.
http://www.palmergear.com/pga04.shtml

[JayB]

Cool. That does sound pretty darn good. I wouldn't of known any difference if you didn't tell me. I never thought about going that route. I have the same problem as you. I can get a great tone through my mixer onto the pc with a mic but it's really freakin loud for everyone else in the house; Though it's not loud enough for me. ;) So that always limited me to hours when no one else is around. The neighbor has already asked me is that me making noise.  ;D But he's cool with it.

[bigsbybender]

. The neighbor has already asked me is that me making noise.  ;D But he's cool with it.

My neighbor told me that he thought I was a good Sax player from the noises eminating from my pseudostudio........I've never played a sax in my life. 8-)

[madison]

EL,
Sounds really great for a simulator.
I have a couple of power-soak type boxes and I hate the direct in sound of them.
They work okay when used normally on an amp speaker.

When you go direct, can you get (good) feedback if you want?
I suppose that isn't possible.

[EL34]

There's dial to mix in more of the raw direct sound.
I have it all the way off cause it starts getting buzzy like a line out sound if you turn it up.

Edit: Oh you mean amp feedback.
You could still run a cabinet to get feedback and take a feed off the Palmer for recording.
You also may be able to stand in front of studio monitors while you play.

[madison]

Yeah, that's what I was driving at.
I suppose any old speaker will create that.
Nice way to crank and amp and save your ears.

[Bassmanster]

That thing sounds great to me.  Like you are in the room.  Nice find.

I have my clean tone down with the condenser 1 foot off the cab but my cheap mic won't do louder sounds.  I also haven't tried it w/o reverb yet (reverb compresses things) so I guess I'll try that next.

[7string]

  Doug, you can also run that line level out into your GMajor then into your tube power amp and have a more controlled speaker volume.

 Another thing I’ve been trying to do is to split the guitar signal and record one clean (straight guitar) and one through a direct setup like you are doing. Later you can send the clean guitar back out of the computer into your cranked amp.

 For that you will need a reamp device. ReAmp and Radial sell these. You can also DIY. It reduces the line level signal back down to instrument level so you can run it right into your amp and mic it up. A lot less time with the volume at disturbing levels because you already have good takes, recorded w/ headphones, in the can.

Pat

[EL34]

There's all kinds of things you can do with this gadjet.  :D
Thanks for the tip.

[Husky100]

Hi there...I know this is a few years old and you may not even be here anymore :)

I'm looking for pga04 and pdi 03 comparisons and can't really find anything...all I hear is people trashing the PGA04 and saying the 03 is much better...  is this really the case as I think most people havent even heard on in real life..... I'm going to buy one soon but not sure which one to get...maybe you can help...

thank you

steve

[overtone]

Mr Palmer explained once that the 04 has more controls than the 03, but apart from that it is the same internals. He said the reason for the bad reviews on some 04s was because the wider control options on the 04 allow you to actually get some possibly dodgy sounds. On the other hand the 03 is foolproof, but more limited.

I use the 03 and have never tried the 04. The 03 is probably one of my most used bits of equipment.
Hope this helps a little,
best, tony

[EL34]

Hi there...I know this is a few years old and you may not even be here anymore

Why yes I am still here
This is my forum and I am still alive


This post is really old
So old that the .mp3 links in post one were on the hoffmanamps site
They have were moved to EL34World a long time ago

I fixed the mp3 links in post one so they work now

Have a listen yourself

There is nothing wrong with the PGA-04

Take everything you read on the web with a grain of salt

[Ritchie200]

HE'S ALIVE!!!!  (no Walking Dead emoticons?)

Some really nice playing there Doug!  Sorry, but I still like scaring the dog, kids, wife, and next door neighbor....

Jim

[Husky100]

Thank you, it's funny how the WWW can make you biast with all the bs out there :)   thanks for your reply

steve

Mr Palmer explained once that the 04 has more controls than the 03, but apart from that it is the same internals. He said the reason for the bad reviews on some 04s was because the wider control options on the 04 allow you to actually get some possibly dodgy sounds. On the other hand the 03 is foolproof, but more limited.

I use the 03 and have never tried the 04. The 03 is probably one of my most used bits of equipment.
Hope this helps a little,
best, tony

[Husky100]

Hey, what a surprise when the links opened today, I thought this thread was well gone :)  yes impressed with the tones, I've tried everything too, living in an apartment can suck, quit miking can work a little, the Axetrak was promising ... blood hell it's a real fight to  find something that you can actually use ... thanks a lot for doing your links again, they help me in this decision....

cheers

steve

I think I have finally cracked the nut on how to record real tube amps without having a real studio.

The problem has always been that you need to isolate the amp in another room so that you can hear how it sounds through the mic without the amp drowning out your headphones.
You need to move the mic around and listen to the amp through the headphones.
Just a tiny move of the mic this way or that can be a huge difference.
Plus the fact that you have neighbors that might not appreciate a 50 wat amp cranked through a 4 x12.
The cats, dogs, wifes, kids may not like it either.
Even the humble little Schedule 40 is really loud.

Nothing I tried worked and since I don't have a studio with a separate control room I kind of gave up on real tube amp mic'd recordings.

I was reading an interview of Joe Satriani and he mentioned a Palmer Speaker simulator. I checked out the reviews on harmony central on the Palmer PGA-04 and they were really good.

Anywho, this thing really is amazing. It has all kind of cool filter controls on the front panel that give you a great sound.
It's nothing like an amp line out, it actually sounds good.
It is a power soak also so you do not hear anything except what comes through the headphones/recording console. I am testing it without any cabinet at all.
You can still hook up a cabinet and bypass the power soak. This way, you can get a balanced or unbalanced line out to the console and still hear your amp.

I did some test with a Hoffman AB763 amp and some ZZ top overdriven sounds from several amps to see how it fares.

This is a conglomerate MP3 of 4 amp clipss.
No speaker cabinet was used.
It's very crude and raw.

A schedule 40
A regular Stout
A Reverb Stout
An original Hoffman Plexi 50.
PalmerTest1



A couple Hendrix tunes with the Palmer PGA-04

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/BurningMidnightLamp.mp3

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/1983Merman.mp3



And a few more recorded directlly from the Palmer

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/Pipeline.mp3

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/files/LoveHurts.mp3



This tune was done in about an hour using only clean tones from my Hoffman AB763 combo.
The speakers were unplugged and the amp was run into the Palmer.
I didn't spend a ton of time polishing it so it's rough and the drum track is generic.
Palmer Apache test




My sound clips page may have more Palmer tunes
You can go here an search the page for the word palmer
http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/music1.htm



And finally, the Palmer PGA-04 speaker simulator link.
http://www.palmergear.com/pga04.shtml

[Husky100]

Thank you Toney, this also helps in my decision.... there are soo many 04's out there on sale and all the 03's are back logged and on order.... is it really no more than peoples inability to use this 04 that makes them think it's not good...it sound good to me...

regards

steve

Mr Palmer explained once that the 04 has more controls than the 03, but apart from that it is the same internals. He said the reason for the bad reviews on some 04s was because the wider control options on the 04 allow you to actually get some possibly dodgy sounds. On the other hand the 03 is foolproof, but more limited.

I use the 03 and have never tried the 04. The 03 is probably one of my most used bits of equipment.
Hope this helps a little,
best, tony

[Bassmanster]

<a href="http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/xspf_player_slim.swf?song_url=http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40689758/lightblueblues.mp3" target="_blank">http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/xspf_player_slim.swf?song_url=http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40689758/lightblueblues.mp3</a>


I've just starting using a Digitech RP155.  Sounds pretty good no?  Still using a tube reverb tho.

[EL34]

Yeah, that does sound good.

Not sure what a Digitech RP155 is, have to go look it up.

[Tyrannocaster]

But...but...but...680 dollars?

[Willabe]

I looked it up and RP155 was just under $100.00.

                Brad     

[EL34]

You are talking apples and oranges. These are two different devices.

One is an effects processor (digitech) and one is a power soak that can take the full output of an amp, and then take a tap off that output and create a high quality line level signal which can then be sent to mixing board, PA or computer. The Palmer has filters to shape the sound of the signal coming off the power soak. This is not a cheesy line level signal coming off a speaker jack like you find on many amps.

You would use the Palmer to suck up the full load of say a 100 watt Marshall amp fully cranked and record that signal without hearing anything.
Or have a monitor speaker on stage coming from the Palmer while the main board takes the line level signal and feeds that into the mix.

The Palmer can output the full signal into a cabinet and still take a tap off that and send it to the board. Which eliminates having to set up amic on the amp cabinet for live performances.

The DIGItech is just an effects processor like so many others out there.
I use guitar rig to process the effects, but it's way nicer than the didgitech unit and does 100 times more.

[Tyrannocaster]

I looked it up and RP155 was just under $100.00.

                Brad     

The Palmer is $680 according to its website. Luckily for Doug, he's making so much money from the site that that's just pocket change for him.  Just kidding. But that's totally out of range for me.

[EL34]

I've had mine for 5 or 6 years.

They weren't that much when I bought mine.

Another example of inflation at work.