GIBSON LES PAUL SIGNATURE PROBLEMS..

[12bz7]

You know the half 335/ half LesPaul with High/Low imp. pickups that Gibson made between ' 73 and ' 78.
Hello to all,
Well my main gigging guitar was playing up ( my only gigging guitar really). Kept cutting in/out while playing. Pinned it down to the input jack ( you know, when the hot tip gets worn and you lose signal). So I thought I'd replace it with a new jack (easier said than done on this model). Managed to get the offending jack and vol, tone pots out the F holes and replace the jack ( impossible to get the In/Out phase pot and the Level Pot with transformer attached out the F hole, don't know how gibson installed them it defies physics). After a couple of hours (easy to pull apart but harder to put back together) I was ready to rock. Picked up the guitar and whilst inspecting the back of the guitar for any damage a short wire ( 4" long) fell out of the F hole. OMG! where does this wire go. I  noticed it when looking  in the F holes earlier but never paid attention as I was concentating on getting the jacks and controls out. Plugged guitar into amp and Nothing,Nada,Not a peep. Downloaded a schematic from Gibson. Spent an hour (or 2) cleaning up the schematic.Took the wiring harness out of guitar again ( by this time it's 4am) and checked closely with magnifine glass and strong light to see any trace of where this wire could go. I presume from the lengh that it went between 2 pots. Could see no evidence of where this wire had been soldered. Darn, I'm up the creek without a paddle.
The nearest luthier is hours away and I would have to wait weeks to have it fixed. I need the guitar for a gig this weekend. Does anyone on this forum have experience with this model? Can anyone guess from looking at the schematic where this wire might go? I'm really in a jam and appreciate all help, thanks again for any suggestions.

[G._Hoffman]

No good answer on this one.  Those things are a nightmare.



Gabriel

[12bz7]

Thanks Gabriel
Your right about being a nightmare. I was hoping that someone with as much experience like your good self might have an easy answer for me but it looks like it's the hard road of trying to lay the harness out and joining the dots with the schematic.
thanks again

[G._Hoffman]

Thanks Gabriel
Your right about being a nightmare. I was hoping that someone with as much experience like your good self might have an easy answer for me but it looks like it's the hard road of trying to lay the harness out and joining the dots with the schematic.
thanks again

I'm afraid so.  Don't forget to tie some dental floss to the pot shafts and the pot washers before you pull the pots.  It makes life a LOT easier when it comes time to put them back in. 


Oh, and I think this was over by the seventies, but back in the fifties and sixties, Gibson had a bunch of women in the factory who wired everything on 335's and such through the F-holes.  Just imagine what happens when a hot soldering iron touches celluloid binding!


Gabriel

[Geezer]

Does the wire (that fell out) have solder on the ends? Does it look like it has ever been attached to anything (jacket stripped off the ends/remnants of old solder)?

Maybe it was just dropped in there during construction & it is just now coming out, having been dislodged by the work you were doing?
I know it's a long-shot, but possible (& may give you some hope)......

Once you get everything out again, maybe go over all your work & hook it up before re-installing (if possible) for a "sound check"(?)

Man, I feel for you! Hope you get it figured out.

PS....I remember the 1st time I installed a kitchen countertop.....while screwing in the VERY LAST screw, I took it too far & it popped thru the top....right in the center of the counter! What a sick feeling! I had to glue the ~1" piece of broken formica back on....never did look right.
Let's hope you get your project back "right"!  G

[12bz7]

Thanks Gabriel for the tip on dental floss. I've be using the wife's sowing thread which is an absolute pain to work with. Those women at Gibson certainly were talented. I wish I was married to one.

da Geeza I think you may be right about that wire. That thought crossed my mind when I looked at it closely and the fact that all the other wire is shielded cable, why would they go to all the trouble of shielding every bit of signal  then at the last 4" piece think " stuff it, nonshielded will do for here". Also the wire ( PVC 20gauge solid core- brown colour) looked neatly cut but at the same time had what looked like slight burn marks ( this is bloody tough to figure out). After studying the layout wiring in the guitar and the schematic I think the small piece of wire is not needed. However.. please read on...

Here's where I'm up to thus far.
I thought I had fixed it. Was up most of the night again with a hookup wire up with alligator clips on each end. By clipping one end to pin 6 on the level pot and the other end to one of the lugs on the phase switch I got sound ( see updated schematic). Seemed to work ok. Went to great lengths to insulate around the F holes with Alu foil and masking tape (2 layers) so I could solder the wire to the level control ( Level Control= rotary switch with a transformer encased in metal cylinder 1" x 1.5" attached horizontaly to bottom of switch, the unit only has 1/8" play between soundboard and back of guitar, impossible to remove from guitar). Soldered wire to level control without damage to paint work ( used 2mm copper ground bus wire as a soldering iron heated by gas stove) managed to manipulate phase switch ( also impossible to remove) so solder lugs protuded through Fhole and soldered other end of wire. Job done, put guitar back together. Plugged in and it worked except something's wrong. With phase switch in all pickups/switches work
but sounds more mellow. With phase switch out bridge pickup is completely dead. Conclussion.. Either i have to experiment more with clip leads or short wire is not needed and I have a faulty phase switch, a break  in signal wire somewhere or maybe a problem with connections(solder lugs) on level pot rotary switch ( can't see or get to).
My options...
Spend another day and somehow find the problem.
Remove Level and Phase switches and rewire with a different preamp for these low impedance pickups.
Completely butcher guitar and install a new set of pickups.
Sell guitar and buy a 335.
I feel for your kitchen woes. I'm currently renovating our 50 year old kitchen and finding formica a PITA to work with as well. Hard to keep it looking right.
thanks again guys

[rafe]

Sounds like a nightmare come true........bad enough to have to sort the problem out .....like a ship in a bottle.....you might get some help directly from Gibson if you haven't tried. I have a 79 es-335 and I love
it, fortunately all is well in there and simple compared to yours....I'd see if Gibson had a diagram for it.....

[12bz7]

Hooray ;D Success at last. Now working as good as new. The small piece of wire is part of the circuit, I just had it wired up to the wrong lug that's all.
On the difficulty scale of 1-10 this model is a 10+ for the inexperienced same for the time sucking scale. Emailed Gibson with a question on how they installed the Level Control, waiting game to see if I get a reply,  don't think I will somehow as it's a too old an quirky model.
Thanks again

[jjasilli]

Thanks Gabriel for the tip on dental floss. I've be using the wife's sowing thread which is an absolute pain to work with. Those women at Gibson certainly were talented. I wish I was married to one.

Before rushing into marriage with a Gibson Girl, have you checked-out the Dano Girls?

Go to:  angela.com > Guitar Parts > Gretsch and Other Guitar Parts -scroll down to last photo on that page