Stand-alone true pitch shifting vibrato for guitar

[sluckey]

Just click the world icon under my name.

[Dave]

Sweet. Thank you.

Dave

[plexi50]

Steve do you think this PT i have will do the job? 230-0-230. Heater available current is there.

[sluckey]

Steve do you think this PT i have will do the job?

yes

[Willabe]

Well here we go. Hold on tight. slucky you might have started somethin here.    

plexie50, the guy you bought your SR from, I think is the same guy I bought mine from. I noticed from the pic you posted, it had 101 written in red (?) on it by the 6C4 tube. I looked at mine, it has 100 written on it. Hummm.....

So I e-mailed the guy and asked if he had any more that he'd like to sell?

He wrote me back and said "Whats going on? I had that up on e-bay for over a year and nobody ever bought one. Now yesterday I sold one to you, two hours latter I sold another one, and today I have 4 more people asking to buy one".          Oh well I guess, "When it rains it pours".

 

     Thanks,     Brad      

[sluckey]

Oh my! Y'all run the price up. I got three more.   

[Willabe]

slucky,   Not me I got mine for $20 including shipping.          (Ya know it's against the law to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater if theres no fire, do you smell smoke?)    


Me, I've got a guy to see over at Lenco Transformer Co.    



         Brad    

[plexi50]

He has more on right now. I am tempted but i better just chill and see what happens with the one i already have

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Vintage-Hammond-Amplifiers-H-AO-41-42-w-Tubes-12-AX7-/170413785490?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ad740192

[Willabe]

Yeah, I e-mailed him earlier today, and said I wished he would have told me that he had more, that I would have bought them all. OTOH, I should have asked. He wrote back and said he has one left and wants to hang onto it, but who knows.

plexie, I'm glad you got one too, better you got one and I have one than for me to have two and you none.  I can wait, there's more out there. I would like to have a back up though. 

      Thanks,       Brad        

[plexi50]

I cant wait to get started on the build process. Going to take my time and find the right chassis to use

The tone is sweet for sure

[sluckey]

He also omitted the dry/wet mixer, which may be interesting to put back in.

Well, that statement got me wondering, so I decided to play around today. I replaced the output level pot with a 250K mixer pot to be able to blend the wet and dry signals. I was expecting to just hear vibrato with the dry signal mixed in. That ain't what happens though! As you blend them together there is a phase cancellation and reinforcement going on that produces a variety of very good tones. Much more versatile than my original circuit. It's a keeper! Here's my revised schematic...

    http://home.comcast.net/~seluckey/amps/warbler/warbler_rev1.pdf

Thanks for that tip PRR. And for anyone considering building this, do the revision 1 version. As a bonus, the board shrunk from 12.5" to 11.25".

[DummyLoad]

hey steve, i know there's a re-vibe out there...but this ckt. looks and sounds a lot more interesting. ever thought about mixing in a reverb ckt.? might be cool... might be a bust, but i'm thinking with an AB763 type reverb, it might just be more lush and versatile, not that it already isn't.

just thinking out loud...

carrion. 

--ISO

[sluckey]

Right after I realized the vibrator unit would work with guitar, one of my first thoughts was to build it into a reverb unit. I dropped the idea when I started the board layout. I would have needed at least 2 more inches of board. And two more tubes. And a bigger PT. And so on... I finally just dropped the idea and decided to keep it clean and simple and fit my 16" chassis.

[Dave]

I was considering giving a  tore-t / warbler box a try. That would give all the tube based guitar effects I can think of all in one box.

Dave

[sluckey]

I don't think you need the tremolo from the Tore-T revibe. The warbler revision 1 gives a very lush sounding tremolo effect as well as the vibrato effect.

[P Batty]

I've got a SR from an AO-41, first one to PM me with a shipping address can have it N/C- Merry Christmas to the forum readers.

UPDATE: It's been spoken for...

[Willabe]

You Sir is good people.    Got to love this place.    "And good will to man."     

        Brad           

[Dave]

I don't think you need the tremolo from the Tore-T revibe. The warbler revision 1 gives a very lush sounding tremolo effect as well as the vibrato effect.

Great! Any suggestions on how to meld the two together?

I was thinking of just going from the output of the warbler straight into the 6G15.

Dave

[sluckey]

That'll work.

[Dave]

Man, I was ready to build this thing. I thought I had an old AO41 out there in my collection of madness. Turns out I don't. If anyone finds somewhere to source the thing cheap, let me know.

Dave

[plexi50]

Steve did you try a resistor in place of the choke your using? I just wonder because a resistor sure does give some amps more chime

And im wondering if that chime might be more (vibee)< Thats a new word

Nay. It would probably be to chimey. A choke smooths things out

[sluckey]

Steve did you try a resistor in place of the choke your using?

No. I wanted the B+ to be very clean.

[DummyLoad]

someone has about a two year head start...   

http://www.solorb.com/elect/musiccirc/liquidator1/

his construction is nowhere near the quality and neatness of steve's.   

[DummyLoad]

some of this vibrato technology here was implemented by laurens hammond in a keyboard instrument called the novachord.
it was/is pure genius... a polyphonic synthesizer made in 1939 with 163 valves.

a cool site with some sampling software of a novachord.

http://www.hollowsun.com/HS2/products/novachord/index.htm

click in the jukebox panel to hear some samples - my favorites are titles "nova berlin" and "journey into the mist".

--ISO

[sluckey]

someone has about a two year head start...   

That's the guy I mentioned that had already done this. After seeing that site I decided I had to play with it too.

[Willabe]

sluckey,

Did you try playin around with any of the clean and phase 1,2,3, 500k vol. pots,or the "clean phase" switch on the Liquidator schemo? Looks like they may be usefull.

Wonder what you think about them? 

     Thanks,    Brad

[sluckey]

I didn't do any of that stuff. I'm sure there are a lot of neat sounds available with all the different pots. Having everything adjustable can also be a nightmare.

EDIT... I just realized that the mix control that I've added (see revised schematic  and comments above) is basically the same as his clean switch and pot.

[Willabe]

Having everything adjustable can also be a nightmare.

Because of ???   The dreaded "parasitic oscillations" monster, or just the hassel of a lot more wiring?

I was also wondering why he took the phase 1,2,3, taps to the 500k vol's. off the plates instead of at the 15k, 150pf, 10nf, and SR junction? To isolate the 500k pot, or to isolate the grid, maybe both?

     Thank's    Brad      

I can't seem to figure out how to use the insert quote.        

{EDIT: quote-fix ---PRR}

[sluckey]

Having everything adjustable can also be a nightmare.

Because of ???   

Mainly because you'll spend all your time twisting knobs. Then you'll forget where all the knobs were sitting for that killer tone you found. You'll need a spreadsheet just to keep up with it.

...why he took the phase 1,2,3, taps ...

Hard to say.

I've spent a couple hours experimenting this afternoon. Mixing and matching different combinations of stages together. There were some interesting sounds. I'm not sure how useful some would be. In the end, I put mine back to revision 1 level and buttoned it up. The 4 knobs on the warbler will keep you happy for a long time. I'm gonna call mine done.

I've updated the revised pdf to include a drill guide in case you want to build one. If you decide to do a lot of experimenting please keep us advised.

      http://home.comcast.net/~seluckey/amps/warbler/warbler_rev1.pdf

[Willabe]

Yeah too many knobs is a pain.

But I'm thinking, it might be usefull to wire up an on/off foot switch, just for the Fx and maybe a foot operated speed controller, 1/4" jack, might come in handy at a gig. Just a thought. 

     Anyway,    Thank's sluckey   

          Brad

[sluckey]

ON/OFF footswitch is as simple as a switch between Depth pot wiper and ground. Unless you need a true bypass. I didn't wire in a footswitch jack because mine will likely never leave the bedroom.

Speed controller would just be a pot in series with the Speed pot.

[Willabe]

Yeah, I thought it should be easy enough, without mucking things up.

              Thank's,        Brad      

[plexi50]

Some things are best kept simple. Thats what makes them great to start with. Reading and listening to that Hammond Novachord is just amazing

So is the Warble in esscence built on the polyphonic principal?

Listen to the music in the Original OUTER LIMITS. I wonder if that organ was used for the tones and scarry sounds

[PRR]

Pure phase-shift alone is nearly inaudible. I have not clicked your tracks; if the effect is obvious, there's more than just pure phase-shift going on. (It may be sliding overtones away from normal interval-relation to fundamental.)

The "wow!" effect is when you mix direct and shifted signals. As you say "there is a phase cancellation and reinforcement going on".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaser_(effect)

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/phasers/phase.html

Ah: "Magnatone ... never did the addition of the dry signal..."

So you get two effects, semi-Maggie and semi-Univibe.

[PRR]

I can't seem to figure out how to use the insert quote.

Look at the funny code. There is a {quote...}, the text, and a {/quote}.

Start your reply AFTER the {/quote} (end-quote) code. (Be careful not to lose the {/quote} in editing.)

Code:

[quote author=Willabe link=topic=10681.msg98625#msg98625 date=1293133137]
I can't seem to figure out how to use the insert quote.
[/quote]

Look at the funny code. There is a {quote...}, the text, and a {/quote}.

Start your reply AFTER the {/quote} (end-quote) code. (Be careful not to lose the {/quote} in editing.)

[plexi50]

Is this transformer a Nuclear reactor? Not ready to build just yet. Got to round up some other parts. Want to see if maybe i can leave this as is in this case and maybe go external with some controls first. I dont know. Merry Christmas all!

[plexi50]

Steve i see on the layout you have the footswitch. You didnt put it on your chassis did you? I start building friday.

[sluckey]

no

[Willabe]

{EDIT: added start-Quote code - PRR}

Code:

Look at the funny code. There is a {quote...}, the text, and a {/quote}.

Start your reply AFTER the {/quote} (end-quote) code. (Be careful not to lose the {/quote} in editing.)

Thanks, PRR.   

I'll try playin around with it. I'm getting a little closer.

            Brad         

[plexi50]

Well got started this morning digging and looking for a chassis to work with. I found this old Wurlitzer organ SS chassis and this is what i got done today. Have to wait on the turrets from Doug to build the board. Cant wait to hear this thing /

[Willabe]

plexi50,         Man, when you said you could'nt wait to get goin on this build , you were'nt foolin! Looks great already!

What did you use to clean and prepare the chassis before you panited it? Looks very nice. Also what did you finish paint it with? Any/what type of primer? How many coats of each?


        Thanks,        Brad                    

 

[plexi50]

I just used steel wool to get down to a clean finished look and then used acetone to clean it real good. One coat of light gray auto primer and 2 coats of Flat white paint. It's all i had laying around. If i look back behind me and look at it i am starting to wonder where it came from. Did i do that? If you had seen the inside of the chassis before i gutted it you would never think it was the same chassis

Glad i keep a lot of junk. Pac Rat. I wonder if Steve is still tinkering around with his. Or if there will be any other revisions (tweeking) That transformer is to cool  

Also saw a guy on Ebay that is selling 4 available Hammond A0-41 & 47 units for $100.00 each. Dam cat is out of the bag. I want to get 2 more just for GP if this one psychs me out nicely. But not at $100.00 each

[sluckey]

Plexi50, just a heads up before you load turrets. You have the transformer mounted on the bottom side of the board in the pics. The transformer is fragile. I'd let that be the last thing to install on the board.

I'm done with mine. I did change the mix pot to a 500K-L to give some more isolation between the dry and wet signals. I can't hear any difference from the original 250K-L though.

[plexi50]

Plexi50, just a heads up before you load turrets. You have the transformer mounted on the bottom side of the board in the pics. The transformer is fragile. I'd let that be the last thing to install on the board.

I'm done with mine. I did change the mix pot to a 500K-L to give some more isolation between the dry and wet signals. I can't hear any difference from the original 250K-L though.

Yes good idea. I just wanted to see if all my drilling matched up. Perfect template. Is your transformer flush mounted on your board? There were two nuts on the bottom of transformer mounting screws acting as stand offs. I removed them because the screws were not long enough to go all the way through to the backside of the board. I can see you really need longer screws to have that nut on the bottom to keep the transformer top half from pulling down and possibly breaking it as you tighten the two screws down on the board

[Willabe]

$100 EACH!     Old, Old, Ted Nudgent, Tooth, Fang, and Claw, "Well Here We Go"!

Thats why I called a transformer company. I'll go see them after the first of the year. Might just be a "blip" in the "market", but who knows?

                                      AND IT'S ALL SLUKEYS FAULT !!!!!             


             Brad                  

   

[plexi50]

The guy on the Liquidator page link is two years ahead in this. But in all honesty i think Steves layout is so clear and precise that it may be the straw that broke the Hammonds back.  Im sure there will be plenty of them around cheap. Just have to look everyfew hours. Thats a pain in itself

[Willabe]

Yeah .... BUT !!!    "Dougs" site ("Our Fearless Leader", remember Bullwinkell & Rocky?)  has what 2k plus members? Not including guest's? Words gonna spread.

AND !!!    The guys here are not "foolin" around.                "GIVE ME MY TONE, I'LL BUILD IT MYSELF"  !!!!      

But.....     PRR did say, we can use more than one "coupling" agent to acheive the same goal.

Maybe when he and his good girl Molly, whose's riding shotgun with him, get done plowing, he'll have time to tell us more?    

Hey, I grew up in Chgo. so I'm no stranger to snow. When it fall's, and it does, and it's still gonna,(no matter what Vice Pres. Gore say's) clearing that stuff out of the way comes FIRST! People have health problems, need to get their meds, need food, water, ect.....  . Please remember to ALWAYS IN COLD or HEAT extrems to check on   ALL  your older and/or disabled or ill neighbors who might need help from you. I remember having to come out more than a few times through the years to hand shovel out our side St. that we all lived on. It was always the ---HEAVY---- WET---- 6" to 8"s of very heavy,  not the light powder for skying. Dad was right," Who's gonna shovel out the block if We don't". It was kinda fun, as long as dad was their too.

       Anyway     Thanks,      Brad              

[sluckey]

Here's another one...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=150498597286&si=%252BgX030GSbhos6g1HhHwPW59S4Oc%253D&viewitem=

Oh, wait. I already bought that one!     

If you guys will be patient and don't buy at these ridiculous prices, the price will go back down. I don't think this item will be a big hit.

[plexi50]

Here's another one...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=150498597286&si=%252BgX030GSbhos6g1HhHwPW59S4Oc%253D&viewitem=

Oh, wait. I already bought that one!     

If you guys will be patient and don't buy at these ridiculous prices, the price will go back down. I don't think this item will be a big hit.

I just got another email from the person selling them on Ebay. He has two different accounts so the ones you see now are his but in his wifes Ebay store.  I got mine from him using a best offer at the time. He is holding out now firm at $100.00 a piece.  There will be plenty more to come on soon at $20.00 

[plexi50]

Boy this is quiet a job. The hard work is done. I ordered the wrong parts and wound up with eyelets but it worked out very well
All i have left to do is wire up the PS,pots and tube sockets
Oh yeah and the PITA  heater wiring. I hate wiring heaters
The under board wiring sucks the life out of you